An exchange of e-mails concerning a problem of those who would be teachers of the Law, but do not really know what they are talking about.
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:09:20
From: B & R
Subject: Re: Yeshua/Jesus – Replacement Theology
Amen! Amen! to your most recent email re. the “discussion” about Torah! We had hopes of being tempering agents in the Fellowship and maybe waiting for the Lord to bring the leaders to a broader vision/understanding of salvation and the life in Yeshua. Little signs of their teaching content changing so far, so before long we may be parting company.
I’m aware there has been much discussion in the Messianic Body world-wide about Christology and how far parts of the Torah (ie. as in the Tenach especially) should be observed, and here in [the city] several attempts at establishing a balanced Messiah Fellowship have floundered on the rocks of legalism. Earlier this year we thought we would ‘hang in’ for the rest of this year and pray and ‘work’ for constructive changes of the preaching. . . .
R and I have even been asked to start up a Fellowship but we’ve held off in the hopes that a healthy one will evolve that can include the Messianic flavour without getting caught up in what is virtual legalism. We’ll be continuing to pray about our position in the present fellowship.
Meantime may the Lord’s favour be upon you all in the coming days of ministry and the Court proceedings. Interestingly, the Christian TV channel ____ had a short piece on the Christian News slot about the attacks on the Beersheva congregation and the court case, You were briefly interviewed about it – especially your comments re. the case not being against Israel or fellow Jews, but to uphold normal legitimate rights of the nation to express your faith.
Shalom, every blessing, and love from us both,
B
Shalom B,
Some more thoughts: sin is not ‘Torahlessness’. Sin is lawlessness (1Jn 3:4), whether against God’s Torah or any other legitimate rule of law. Sin is unbelief in the one true God and against Jesus Christ/Yeshua Messiah, whom He sent and who came as the Savior (Jn 16:9). Lawless people, ultimately personified in the antichrist, do not submit to any higher law over them, but set them up as being a law unto themselves, and expect others to submit to their lawlessness!
The Torah ‘came in by the way’, and is for sinners. The New Testament does not do away with the need for it as long as there are sinners on the Earth, and that will be for at least another 1000 years. During the Millennial Kingdom, though, there are modifications to the Law of Moses, which is further proof for us that the ‘Torah’ is not an end in itself, but a means towards something greater and more ‘mature’. But for those IN Messiah, we are commanded to submit to the proper civil and religious authorities over us (including parental), which is to submit to the highest authority, the Lord Jesus Himself. We are under HIS Torah, which is higher, wider, broader, deeper than the Law of Moses, and His Torah puts us under grace by the indwelling presence and power of the Holy Spirit, who will fulfill the righteousness of the Law in us who are believers in Christ, and we establish the Law by faith as being a good, holy, righteous necessity.
For those going in reverse, wanting to place themselves and others under the Law, and to say that our very righteousness and salvation may be dependent upon that, are themselves ‘replacing’ the fuller revelation of God’s mind and heart and purposes (God’s theology) which has been revealed through the gospel as unfolded for us throughout the N.T. Scriptures.
Many blessings of peace unto you and R,
Howard
_ _ _ _ _
Hi B,
As for me, of course, I am a Jew, and in no way, as far as I am aware, in replacement theology, but God has placed me back into HIS! Hallelu-Yah!
Also, and I appreciate the interest of this couple, but our salvation is based on being born-again in Christ/Messiah, and not on our particular understanding of a number of very important issues. We will certainly be rewarded as believers for the works we will have done as believers, whether good or bad. Our salvation is all of grace, based on God’s righteousness and our repentance and faith in the truth of the gospel. Our rewards are not of grace in quite the same way (but there is no doubt that EVERYTHING we will have and inherit is God’s lovingkindness/grace and mercy towards us), but will be according to our perfect Father, Teacher, and Judge, who knows how to properly evaluate and give His children and His students/disciples, etc., commendations and marks/grades for how well we did with what He provided us. And He knows perfectly how to ‘handicap’ so that there is no partiality nor inequality or inequity in His measurement of things. To whom much is given, more will be required.
There is still time in God’s redemptive plan to bring all of us into line with what is important to Him before the coming of the Lord. The prayer of Jesus will be answered for true unity and love. And one thing that He is not requiring of us at this time is what name we call Yeshua, as long as we honor Him in whatever language we use. If it were otherwise, then the Holy Spirit would have inspired the writers of the Septuagint and of the New Testament to have always transliterated the name Yeshua as Yeshua, and not let it be given in Greek as He did to sound like Iesous (or something like that)!
Blessings,
Howard
At 10:01 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote:
No. 3 of 3 Howard.
Wish I was more computer literate to have “tied” them together for you in one email. Haven’t made reference to C of your initial response to me, but will fwd. her response to my email below or any result of dialogue re. the Cohanim matter etc. in what I sent, but my movements in the coming month are taking myself and R out of [the city] for most of it.
May not be back in touch until toward end of May. Again, thanks for any comments, and prayerful thoughts and every blessing in Yeshua, B
—– Original Message —–
From: B & R
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject:
Thanks for a helpful response. The question of being Cohanim in the future Kingdom is a topic I (and I’m sure many others) would be interested in exploring/discussing.
. . . .
Will keep in touch and continue in a few weeks discussion on some of the matters referred to in this week’s emails to and fro.
Shalom and blessings,
B (& R)
—– Original Message —–
From:
To: B & R
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 11:58 PM
Subject: Lawsuit by Messianic Believers
Thanks B.
It is I, C, who wrote the email, and so I am responding. These are good questions you ask and yes they need careful answering. I am choosing to answer straight away from my understanding to date.
Many of those who are now Messianic Jews were once Hebraic Christians i.e they were Hebrews and in the Church. In our early walk, G and I read David Stern’s Jewish Manifesto and since then works and articles about the Jewish believers walk back out of Replacement Theology which is Christianity in the organisational sense, to being fully Jewish again and yet in Messiah. To be born again is of course a very Jewish understanding. There are many born again experiences in Jewish life style, bar Mitzvah, Mikvah are just two. Life events of renewal are often seen as being born again and it is this that Yeshua alluded to knowing the people would understand in essence, yet of course being born again into the the Kingdom, took the whole experience into another realm. I certainly felt born again when I came into the Messianic Movement, even though I had had a born again experience with Yeshua and in the Ruach Ha Kodesh when I came to know him. The promise of eternal life if we endure to the end in him, leads us to the full and final rebirth of course, in the renewal of our bodies in fact our whole self, in the resurrection.
Regarding Replacement Theology, the outworking of our faith in Yeshua does need to be in line with his teachings, so the Torahlessness of Replacement Theology may eventually bring condemnation. As we know, we have been warned that many will say to Yeshua, “Lord, Lord, didn’t we do fine works in your name, expel demons in your name, and he will say to them, “Get away from me you workers of Torahlessness”. After all Torahlessness is the apostacy that came very early after the emmisaries were killed. So yes Replacement Theology if deliberately continued by a believer, may be what discounts him/her from the final call for the Kingdom at least to be the cohanim despite having had the experience of being born again. It is the working out in spirit and truth of what pleases YHVH, that counts. Of course there are other passages that talk about the love and good works, especially towards Yeshua’s brothers, the Jews, and towards one another in his body, that are also markers of the Torah of Yeshua. It is YHVH who will decide of course at the final Teruah, or at our death which ever comes first as to who is the the greatest in the kingdom or who has been in the kingdom “in vain”, which is the Shem Tov Hebrew Matthew’s rendering of the usual word, ‘least’. I looked up the Hebrew meaning of vain and it means, without validity, or meaning!
I am very concerned that so many feel they can love Israel and remain in Replacement Theology. I feel that this is anti Semitism at it’s worst. You and R for example, have stepped out of Replacement Theology both in word and deed as well as loving Israel from your heart, therefore you are truly loving Israel by also loving their Elohim, all be it in the newer way without the sacrificial system but in Yeshua. I am so sure it is time for all to do the same. Talmidei Yeshua exists to teach all to love YHVH Elohim in a way that pleases him in Spirit and Truth and in a way that really witnesses to his people Israel. I am personally very tired of hearing about people who love Israel but do not love Israel’s Elohim, by obeying his commandments. I think this sends a very confusing message to Israel, and this is why I understood Netanyahu’s response.
Thankfully so many nowadays are waking up to the fact that yes, to be born again in Yeshua, but to live outside his ways in Replacement Theology may lead to finding yourself outside YHVH’s Kingdom. I realise that we are citizens now of the Heavenly Kingdom of which the Torah is a shadow of things to come. However even a shadow is imaged from the actual, not a replacement, or something different. After all if the nations are to be ruled with a rod of iron and made to keep Shabbat, Rosh Hodesh and Sukkot in the Millenium, how important is it for those in training to be Yeshua’s Cohanim for the millennium and eternal life, to keep his ways.
I hope this has answered your question – bottom line for me – yes, deliberately remaining in replacement theology for the body of Yeshua may mean the individual is outside of the final Kingdom as Cohanim, despite his/her born again experience.
Thank you for listening and being there. Yes of course we are willing to discuss anything with you and R, at greater length should you wish to. Feel free to disagree!
Shalom in Yeshua
C
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:40:53
From: B & R
Subject: Fw: CBNnews – April 15 – “Last Day” in Court
To: Howard
Shalom Howard
Below is a copy of my first response to C & G, leaders of ____. I will also fwd. C’s response and then my further response. Feel free to comment on any of the content. Appreciate your interest.
G is Jewish but brought up in a Christian setting. C is not Jewish but shares a similar background to G.
Many thanks. B
On 14 April 2010 11:00, B & R wrote:
Shalom C (and G),
Before trying to respond to your email more fully, or perhaps better still sitting together some time to discuss the matters, would you please share your thoughts on the difference between “Hebraic Christians” and “Messianic Jews”? Also, does “living a Replacement theology life style”, mean a person is not “born again” or outside Yahweh’s Kingdom?
Thanks for giving some time to these matters.
B
—– Original Message —–
From:
To: B & R
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: CBNnews – April 15 – “Last Day” in Court
Thanks B, we appreciate you sending us this update.
I am just concerned about one thing. It has bothered me for a while now. Does this Messianic Congregation talk about Yeshua or Jesus, as they seem to mention both names in the commentary and do they follow Christianity or the Scriptural life of the Torah in Yeshua. From observing some Messianic groups in Israel over the years, there seems to be a struggle to understand the difference between being Hebraic Christians and Messianic Jews, which I would imagine might add to the orthodox pressure against the Congregations, not that there is ever an excuse for violence! What is your opinion on this, as you will have visited many congregations over there. For the same reasons, I can understand the Prime Minister of Israel not accepting roses from Christians, even those who love Israel, as many who love Israel sadly still live a Replacement theology life style. We cannot blame him for being afraid of any form of assimilation.
Shalom,
C
On 11 April 2010 16:05, B & R wrote:
Subject: CBNnews – April 15 – “Last Day” in Court
This seemed worthy of sending to a wider group than usually get these updates. B