Below is an exchange of e-mails (beginning from the bottom of the entry) on a topic which was contentious in the beginning of the last days nearly 2000 years ago, and is still contentious as the end of the age is nearing. The two views were not and are not compatible towards expressing the truth of the one new man created in Messiah Yeshua/Christ Jesus. A crucial question, then, is which view is governed more by the reality of the new priesthood in Messiah during this age of the Great Commission?
At 08:18 AM 8/24/2010 +1200, you wrote:
Your talking about Covenant Change, How can I be with Yeshua and know were Not in New Religion, but better Covernant, I wish you well and Hope someday your realize our People need Yeshua so much that we must not be ashamed of our New Life, Yeshua is who Moses was told would come, and YHVH is The only truth, I disagree with your views on scripture, I guess you like Dr Arnold Fruiterburm >>>Incorrect spelling,sorry…he Teaches some great stuff, but again Misses the Point on Torah and who Torah is, and We are not wrong Thousands of Jews like myself, and some like you, do eat ham, dont think much of YHVHS Torah>>>I guess when YHVH tells me in His 10 Commandments, Not to steal, and commit adultery I took Him seriously< Grace is In torah!, Its heaalthy boubdries, and YHVH Still deems His Torah Very Important today......Salvation In Yeshua is our only Hope, yet how are we living in it?. Well thanks for sharing, I see where your heart is at,
Blessings in Yeshua, J. Agree to Disagreee. I dont have time to cover all the ground, ONly Yeshua can open up your heart to see!. If Your come out Judaism in past your have some mind sets and walls in some scriptures, so I can only share in Love, YHVH will or not, GOd bless on your Walk!
22.8.10
Shalom J,
Thanks for sharing your heart, and I appreciate your graciousness.
Without going into the great amount of teaching from the Lord and His apostles in the New Testament Scriptures about our new and living way, I only want to mention a few points that govern many others:
--The Law was given Israel as a tutor, to bring us to faith in the promised Messiah (The Prophet, the Great High Priest, the King of kings), the Son of God.
Having come to faith in Yeshua, we see some significant differences and changes from what was to what is (when we read the last nine chapters of Ezekiel about the coming Messianic Kingdom, there are also some modifications to the Law of Moses):
--Under the Law/Torah, only Israelis could be in covenant relationship with YHVH God. The Gentiles, as we read in Ephesians, did not have such a relationship. In Messiah and the New Covenant, both Jews and Gentiles can be in covenant relationship with the Creator and Redeemer.
--Under the Old Covenant, only males were to be circumcised as a sign of that covenant made with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. Under the New Covenant, all persons who believe are immersed/baptized into Christ's death and burial, and raised with Him by faith in His resurrection.
--Under the Law, only High Priest, Prophets, and Kings were anointed with oil for their calling and ministry. In Messiah, all believers are 'anointed' with the Holy Spirit.
--Under the Law of the Old Covenant, the priesthood was given by God to the Levitical family of Aaron and his sons, and it was only for men. According to the letter to the Hebrews -- a book especially directed to Jewish believers -- the very fact that the priesthood has changed in Messiah necessarily changes the Law we live by, whether we are Jewish or Gentile believers. In Messiah, all believers -- male and female from any family among Jews or Gentiles -- are priests unto God according to a superior priesthood that already existed with God before the giving of the Law at Sinai.
--YHVH God promised through Moses to raise up a Prophet similar to him, but also greater than Moses, and God told Israel that He would require us to listen to whatever He says. Jesus came, and said a number of things by saying "you have heard, but I say", and some of these things touch on issues of the Torah itself, not only on wrong interpretations of it.
--When YHVH gave Moses instructions for Israel concerning His appointed times/feasts in Lev 23, He also spoke twice concerning the 'day after the Sabbath', which is also fulfilled in the resurrection of the Lord, and in the giving of the Holy Spirit on Shavuot/Pentecost.
--Yeshua made all foods clean. Clean foods were already clean; therefore, He has also made unclean foods clean to eat. This one consequence of the gospel has broken down a huge social barrier (a wall of enmity) between Jews and Gentiles who believe, and also allows us to be sent by God anywhere in the world to any people group, and to be able to socialize with them around the table. We are not under obligation to eat everything or anything, but we are free to do so for the gospel's sake.
--We are called to go outside the camp, where Yeshua is, and bear His reproach; to be a scapegoat with Him; to fellowship in His sufferings.
Praise God for our common faith and salvation in Yeshua, and we do look for the salvation of more Jewish people, and many other Gentiles as well, so that the veil will be removed from Israel, and 'all Israel' will be saved of those in Jacob who turn from ungodliness.
Many blessings, J,
Howard
20.8 10
shalom Howard.
thanks for sharing your views, and I actually find your spirit to be humble.
I have not stood into believe in striving to live in Frame work of Torah observant life style, In Yeshua I have learnt to respect YHVHs Torah< as Paul was taught through HolySpirit to observant life in Yeshua as He is our Torah>Gentiles in Yeshua to understand.
I am not here to denounce anyone but to speak in Yeshuas direction, as our Own people Jews deem us as betraying them as we follow Yeshua, Yet they only need to awake to Isaiah 53 and know Yeshua, as Israel will do some day.
Anyway Howard I have a book to share (Torah REdiscovered,challenging Centuries of Misinterpretation and Neglect) by Ariel and Dvorah Berkowitz .
YHVH had showed me Himself when I was 2 years old, and in 1972 I came to Yeshua. I have never not been with YHVH. I know now for many years the truth of the Gospel, Kingdom of YHVH and how Yeshua Did not start a new Religion called Christanity. Many more people I have met who have shared with me this truth too. At times I have felt like Elijah > the only Prophet of YHVH left, as I have been convicted about living outside of the Frame work of Torah, I have found I am now more respectful to myself and others especially YHVH. It is through Yeshua I have Salvation alone, and no good deeds, or Torah observant life could make me right before GOd YHVH Paul Observered Torah and he was so misunderstood in Galations, western church has missed Pauls Points, and taken it to extreme of Out with old Judaism, and Law>>>AS if thats a dirty word, and say they have Christ, cross, christanity> Jews off to hell!> Many Christians are now waking up on fire in Holyspirit, leading Jews to know Yeshua as they realize wrongs done on both sides as Christians honour their Messianic Judaism >>>Restored Biblical Judaism IN YESHUA>>>NOt man made Oral laws, and imposters in adding, to YHVHs HOLY PERFECT WORD< or taking away.
Yeshua is Torah Fact< YHVH is not contradicting scripture, and we all have got much wrong
lets work together in Preparing the Way of the Return of the KIng< show Israel we have found Our Messiah
Lets agree we do not know or understand all in Torah, and NT
Your faith is Jewish, we have Jewish King, and our Bible Is Jewish Book!
I can give you much more facts and info on this important matter.
But if you were to ask me if I follow Christanity, I would say NO>I follow Yeshua, Messanic Judaism is nearest I could translate it to you, I hounour Saturday>>>Shabbat, Feasts of YHVH< Torah encourage each other in Biblical Love and stay Holy for deeds of darkness will use all it can to denounce you, But your an Overcomer.
Love in YHVH MIss J, daughter of Zion.
18 Aug 2010
Thanks, J, for being honest in your feed-back to what I said. It's important to know how I come across and what reactions or responses there are among the different people.
The reason I say it is a different religion is maybe how I 'define' religion: doing, living what you believe. If someone is 'righteous' within his/her own community of faith (whatever that faith may be), then he/she will be known as someone who lives by his/her faith.
The New Testament, based on the fact that Messiah has already come, and that He is Yeshua, and that He died and rose again for our sins, tells us that we are a new creation, no longer under a/the Law to obtain righteousness, but rather that God has imputed to us a righteousness through genuine faith in the gospel. Yeshua does fulfill the Torah, and also the Prophets, and He will fulfill everything that has been written in the whole of the Law and the Prophets and the Writings (the Old Testament).
Under Judaism -- or any other religion and faith based upon righteousness by works of Law in that community or under whatever God they say they believe in -- people live to prove themselves righteous (self-righteousness); people are generally more concerned with the approval of other people rather than with pleasing God; we think we are better than others, because in the case of the Jewish people, God chose US and not some Gentile nation to be His first-born nation; and, with all these things, Judaism (and other religions which are similar to what I have just described, including even within Christianity) does not accept or believe that Yeshua/Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of the living God -- in whom we say that we do believe (YHVH, the Creator and Redeemer of the heavens and the Earth).
Anyway, this is what I mean when I say that Messianic Jews belong to a new religion. Our whole perspective on life and living has been changed, even while we are still Jews (if we are), the natural branches whom God by His grace has grafted back into His olive tree, and given us the spirit of adoption, so that we, too, call upon God as our Father in a personal way, and not just in some general way that Jewish people/Israel may say, and that even Greek philosophers acknowledge.
God bless you, J,
Howard
At 11:28 AM 8/18/2010 +1200, you wrote:
shalom and thank you for your news letter, I pray for you both, But must confess I disagree with your statement> about us Messianic Jews belong to New Religion, this word you shared in Tauranga, I feel your precious souls, But I live (in Restored Bibliical Judaism in Yeshua, ) I know He is Torah and has not changed, Salvation alone is in Yeshua Not torah, I know many Jews like myself know this, and I know when Yeshua returns Soon, He will Restore all areas of Israel, Love in Yeshua Miss J, amen.